The Rant: Microsoft [Episode 1]

Sovereign Alan wrote:

XBL and PSN are "online services." >.> Deals don't pop up all the time but they do pop up often enough on the dash to save you alot of money on just online fees alone. You could also go to amazon.com where they pretty much always have discounted prices on gold membership.

My only criticism of Live is that there isn't different levels for the subscription service. Some people don't want all the features but are forced to pay full price anyways.

Sorry, misworded. When I mean that XBL shouldn't be an ''online service'' I mean that the online portion should not be part of Xbox Live Gold. It should be free.

Maybe this "ZOMG MS CHArGEs ONLINE" anger could be better directed.

The industry screws us in much more severe ways than this.

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Hypnotoad wrote:

I'm with Ihsan on this one. Only one input to his whole 'point'. Why shouldn't MS let you play multiplayer FOR FREE and charge you say, $40?, for all those other features (discounts, XGC, ESPN, etc.)

With games like Black Ops, it's like paying fucking $120 for a single game. (Seriously guys, who plays Black Ops for the campaign?)

Let me play my multiplayer for free and I'm a happy person. But ask me to pay $60 of my hard-earned money ($10 of which goes to Activision, lulz) and that pisses me the fuck off. Especially when I already had to pay $60 for a game that I already own and that I should have full accessibility to after a single purchase.

I agree that the online multiplayer should be free with silver, but all the other features are worth paying for. I just hate how ignorant fanboys pass off XBL like it's the same thing as PSN. But in all seriousness, if you take advantage of the discounts on gold membership off the dashboard, you could be saving alot of cash. Or hell, just get it at Amazon for like 45 bucks. The only time I've ever paid full price for XBL gold was when I first got my Xbox.

Again, it's not the cash itself, but rather the fact that you're paying for something PC & PS3 users get FOR FREE. I would be completely okay if Microsoft made online free and had all those features like ESPN and whatnot as a bundle monthly price or something, but plain and simple is that online should be free. Wasn't Games For Windows Live a monthly fee or some fee at one point? Guess where that went.

@Pickles:

That's a bullshit argument and you know it. Just because one part of the industry is screwing over people more than another does not make that other immune to criticism.

LOL So you are complaining about the principle of the thing?

It'd be one thing if PSN was actually just as good/better than XBL and it was still free, but come on. XBL is marginally better than PSN. XBL has cross-game voice chat and a party system to keep everyone connected. The ingame interface itself is also much better; allowing you to do things like send voice messages, send universal game invites even to people not playing the same game, etc.

Console owners are use to being screwed over anyways. Each game is priced significantly less for PC compared to PS3/360 and they usually come with more features. The thing that bothers me is that you are categorizing PS3 and PC as if they are pracitcally the same thing. PS3 owners get screwed over because there are certain features that PSN doesn't have, while Xbox 360 owners get screwed over because they have to pay for those features. Conclusion: With both platforms you will in some way have an inconvenience with online.

Note: Don't take "screwed over" literally. I don't mind that much that PSN doesn't have a party system, and I also don't mind paying for XBL Gold.

Of course I'm going to argue the principality of it. Stealing is stealing no matter if it's a car or a Pokemon card.

The PC gets everything you listed and more. So why is this acceptable for console owners? Why is getting shittier service yet paying fees fine? There's no intrinsic value for online services, but a standard was set and that standard is zero.

Ihsahn wrote:

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Hypnotoad wrote:

I'm with Ihsan on this one. Only one input to his whole 'point'. Why shouldn't MS let you play multiplayer FOR FREE and charge you say, $40?, for all those other features (discounts, XGC, ESPN, etc.)

With games like Black Ops, it's like paying fucking $120 for a single game. (Seriously guys, who plays Black Ops for the campaign?)

Let me play my multiplayer for free and I'm a happy person. But ask me to pay $60 of my hard-earned money ($10 of which goes to Activision, lulz) and that pisses me the fuck off. Especially when I already had to pay $60 for a game that I already own and that I should have full accessibility to after a single purchase.

I agree that the online multiplayer should be free with silver, but all the other features are worth paying for. I just hate how ignorant fanboys pass off XBL like it's the same thing as PSN. But in all seriousness, if you take advantage of the discounts on gold membership off the dashboard, you could be saving alot of cash. Or hell, just get it at Amazon for like 45 bucks. The only time I've ever paid full price for XBL gold was when I first got my Xbox.

Again, it's not the cash itself, but rather the fact that you're paying for something PC & PS3 users get FOR FREE. I would be completely okay if Microsoft made online free and had all those features like ESPN and whatnot as a bundle monthly price or something, but plain and simple is that online should be free. Wasn't Games For Windows Live a monthly fee or some fee at one point? Guess where that went.

@Pickles:

That's a bullshit argument and you know it. Just because one part of the industry is screwing over people more than another does not make that other immune to criticism.

I'm not saying it's immune to criticism, alls I'm saying is that not a big deal compared to what else is happening. I'm mean, c'mon, it's like 5 bucks a month if you pay for full price.

I mean I'd be pissed that I can't play Crysis split-screen multiplayer with my friends. I have to have them own gaming rigs which is much more expensive than just buying three controllers. I can play Reach with 3 other people right next to me WHILE playing online. See what I'm getting at?

Also weren't you the guy who said it's okay to steal from a dev if they don't put demos or stuff like that? It's strange that you're arguing against stealing.

Comparatively it isn't a big deal, but again, this does not make it immune nor less inclined to be bitched at XBL is bullshit. It's almost mandatory because you don't get ANYTHING by being a silver member. XBL would be the superior service IF you could at least play your games online for free. It's a shame that voting with your wallet (or rather, lack of) won't surmount to anything more than an armchair revolution.

The last part of your post doesn't even really warrant a response. I just... I don't even.

Ask yourself the question, if MS made online free would you still pay? For the extra features, say like XGC etc? Me? Probably not.

How this became a PC v 360 argument I don't know, but when people say PC gaming is better in everyway they're not exactly right.

Consoles are convenient, up to four people can pick up a controller and play, some games like Halo and FIFA let 2 or more people play online.

I'd say that's really the only thing that consoles have over PC gaming, unless your like me and can't get used to Mouse/KB so think controller > M/KB

Stoney wrote:

Ask yourself the question, if MS made online free would you still pay? For the extra features, say like XGC etc? Me? Probably not.

How this became a PC v 360 argument I don't know, but when people say PC gaming is better in everyway they're not exactly right.

Consoles are convenient, up to four people can pick up a controller and play, some games like Halo and FIFA let 2 or more people play online.

I'd say that's really the only thing that consoles have over PC gaming, unless your like me and can't get used to Mouse/KB so think controller > M/KB

If they slashed the price to like $30? I'd pay for it.

You can use a 360 controller on your PC for PC/360 games. Or you can just buy a PC controller that's NOT a keyboard (they sell those, you know.)

Hypnotoad wrote:

Stoney wrote:

Ask yourself the question, if MS made online free would you still pay? For the extra features, say like XGC etc? Me? Probably not.

How this became a PC v 360 argument I don't know, but when people say PC gaming is better in everyway they're not exactly right.

Consoles are convenient, up to four people can pick up a controller and play, some games like Halo and FIFA let 2 or more people play online.

I'd say that's really the only thing that consoles have over PC gaming, unless your like me and can't get used to Mouse/KB so think controller > M/KB

If they slashed the price to like $30? I'd pay for it.

You can use a 360 controller on your PC for PC/360 games. Or you can just buy a PC controller that's NOT a keyboard (they sell those, you know.)

Yes, I know. But going online with a controller would be suicide. lol

Ihsahn wrote:

Comparatively it isn't a big deal, but again, this does not make it immune nor less inclined to be bitched at XBL is bullshit. It's almost mandatory because you don't get ANYTHING by being a silver member. XBL would be the superior service IF you could at least play your games online for free. It's a shame that voting with your wallet (or rather, lack of) won't surmount to anything more than an armchair revolution.

The last part of your post doesn't even really warrant a response. I just... I don't even.

I got you! I got you! Admit that I got you!

Quote :

Ask yourself the question, if MS made online free would you still pay? For the extra features, say like XGC etc? Me? Probably not.

No. I don't know what you're getting at here?

Quote :

How this became a PC v 360 argument I don't know, but when people say PC gaming is better in everyway they're not exactly right.

Consoles are convenient, up to four people can pick up a controller and play, some games like Halo and FIFA let 2 or more people play online.

I'd say that's really the only thing that consoles have over PC gaming, unless your like me and can't get used to Mouse/KB so think controller > M/KB

We're not debating console vs PC. We're debating the online services of the 360, PS3 and PC and how it's not right that Xbox owners have to give M$ money per year for something PC gamers get for free.

Quote :

I got you! I got you! Admit that I got you!

If by got you mean made me facepalm so hard I slammed my head into my desk then you certainly did.

Ihsahn wrote:

Quote :

Ask yourself the question, if MS made online free would you still pay? For the extra features, say like XGC etc? Me? Probably not.

No. I don't know what you're getting at here?

Quote :

How this became a PC v 360 argument I don't know, but when people say PC gaming is better in everyway they're not exactly right.

Consoles are convenient, up to four people can pick up a controller and play, some games like Halo and FIFA let 2 or more people play online.

I'd say that's really the only thing that consoles have over PC gaming, unless your like me and can't get used to Mouse/KB so think controller > M/KB

We're not debating console vs PC. We're debating the online services of the 360, PS3 and PC and how it's not right that Xbox owners have to give M$ money per year for something PC gamers get for free.

Quote :

I got you! I got you! Admit that I got you!

If by got you mean made me facepalm so hard I slammed my head into my desk then you certainly did.

You just don't want to admit it. That's okay.

I don't think any less of you.

lol

Admit what? That you took an [flashing sign with neon lights] example [/flashing sign with neon lights] and blew it completely out of context?

I'm all for correcting my mistakes, bro, but I think something went over your head.

Ihsahn wrote:

Of course I'm going to argue the principality of it. Stealing is stealing no matter if it's a car or a Pokemon card.

The PC gets everything you listed and more. So why is this acceptable for console owners? Why is getting shittier service yet paying fees fine? There's no intrinsic value for online services, but a standard was set and that standard is zero.

That's just generally how it is. Consoles always get the shorter end of the stick. Compare Steam prices vs XBL marketplace/PS store prices. Gaming on consoles is a closed platform. PC gaming is generally more open and unique and doesn't really have a platform holder. Online services on PC are very affordable and have lots of features because they have competitive drive on the same platform. XBL and PSN don't really compete with each other since they are on different console platforms. Meaning even if one was better than the other or more affordable, that won't lower the number of users on that online service.

That's what I mean, man. Console owners, as much as I like to mock the fanboys who think owning one console is the best route to go, don't deserve that shit.

Your reasoning for why the price exists (that is there is no competition) is entirely valid, but it's lamez.

Ihsahn wrote:

That's what I mean, man. Console owners, as much as I like to mock the fanboys who think owning one console is the best route to go, don't deserve that shit.

Your reasoning for why the price exists (that is there is no competition) is entirely valid, but it's lamez.

I kind of gave up on doing anything about it a long time ago.

Well I guess console gaming makes up for it by being a bit cheaper and more convenient when you first jump into it, which is why it's generally more attractive than PC gaming.

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

That's what I mean, man. Console owners, as much as I like to mock the fanboys who think owning one console is the best route to go, don't deserve that shit.

Your reasoning for why the price exists (that is there is no competition) is entirely valid, but it's lamez.

I kind of gave up on doing anything about it a long time ago.

Well I guess console gaming makes up for it by being a bit cheaper and more convenient when you first jump into it, which is why it's generally more attractive than PC gaming.

You could post the deals Steam had for Black Friday and compare them to what XBL and PSN had.

Put that into like a picture or something and send it to random people. Who knows, it could go viral. People will find out and be pissed. MS and Sony will provide better deals. Hopefully.

If you guys don't do it, I will.

Pickles1337 wrote:

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

That's what I mean, man. Console owners, as much as I like to mock the fanboys who think owning one console is the best route to go, don't deserve that shit.

Your reasoning for why the price exists (that is there is no competition) is entirely valid, but it's lamez.

I kind of gave up on doing anything about it a long time ago.

Well I guess console gaming makes up for it by being a bit cheaper and more convenient when you first jump into it, which is why it's generally more attractive than PC gaming.

You could post the deals Steam had for Black Friday and compare them to what XBL and PSN had.

Put that into like a picture or something and send it to random people. Who knows, it could go viral. People will find out and be pissed. MS and Sony will provide better deals. Hopefully.

If you guys don't do it, I will.

Good luck with that. I would like to see some gaming revolution. Information is power. Alot of people think PSN is crap for being free even though it's not. And alot of people think PC gaming in general is alot more expensive than console gaming.

It essentially is depending on what your tolerance is for graphics or the games you want to play. I just think PC gaming is worth saving up for if the games interest you. The controls alone make it better, in my opinion.

Notice Ihsahn using the phrase "in my opinion."

I had to because I know the sensitive console fanboys will come out and be like NO DATS UR OPINION XD

Ihsahn wrote:

It essentially is depending on what your tolerance is for graphics or the games you want to play. I just think PC gaming is worth saving up for if the games interest you. The controls alone make it better, in my opinion.

My PC is utter shit. It can't even play Runescape on high settings. I was actually thinking about getting a gaming PC but then I decided to get a PS3 instead since the games on it interest me more. There is also the issue of friendslist. Being part of the ADD teenage generation, hardly anyone I know in real life plays current gen games on a PC. Though If I had to save up money for another platform it would definitely be for a decent gaming PC.

Ihsahn wrote:

I had to because I know the sensitive console fanboys will come out and be like NO DATS UR OPINION XD

By console fanboy, you mean me.

Whatever it's just a victory for me. It means I got into your head.

I didn't know you were a console fanboy? I always thought of you as a multi-platform gamer.

That sucks your PC is balls. Upgrade dat shit.

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Pickles1337 wrote:

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

That's what I mean, man. Console owners, as much as I like to mock the fanboys who think owning one console is the best route to go, don't deserve that shit.

Your reasoning for why the price exists (that is there is no competition) is entirely valid, but it's lamez.

I kind of gave up on doing anything about it a long time ago.

Well I guess console gaming makes up for it by being a bit cheaper and more convenient when you first jump into it, which is why it's generally more attractive than PC gaming.

You could post the deals Steam had for Black Friday and compare them to what XBL and PSN had.

Put that into like a picture or something and send it to random people. Who knows, it could go viral. People will find out and be pissed. MS and Sony will provide better deals. Hopefully.

If you guys don't do it, I will.

Good luck with that. I would like to see some gaming revolution. Information is power. Alot of people think PSN is crap for being free even though it's not. And alot of people think PC gaming in general is alot more expensive than console gaming.

Starting a thread about that.