Gameplay>Story or Story>Gameplay?

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Not trying to bring back old wounds, but um...Ihsahn, didn't you imply Halo sucks mostly because of the "bad story" and how it's executed?

I bitched at the gameplay as well, if not more.

Also I agree Pickles, but I think there is a fine line drawn. Games that aren't mean to have stories (Super Meat Boy, Super Mario Galaxy etc) shouldn't really be judged on that basis. But I'm guessing you agree with this.

Nope.

Makes sense, then, since you like paying $60 for movies then. Carry on.

What's the big deal with Super Meat Boy? I tried it and it wasn't that great.

It felt like a damn flash game.

Besides, if a game like Super Mario Galaxy shouldn't be judged based on its story why even include the story anyways?

...



Those were examples.

I mean you certainly could judge them on their story, but that doesn't make it a valid reason to dislike a game. It'd be pretty ridiculous to judge Pacman on its story.

Pacman never had a story. Mario does and it's terrible so why include it?

I... what?

nigga is u for reel?

You should ask yourself that question.

Ihsahn wrote:

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Not trying to bring back old wounds, but um...Ihsahn, didn't you imply Halo sucks mostly because of the "bad story" and how it's executed?

I bitched at the gameplay as well, if not more.

Also I agree Pickles, but I think there is a fine line drawn. Games that aren't mean to have stories (Super Meat Boy, Super Mario Galaxy etc) shouldn't really be judged on that basis. But I'm guessing you agree with this.

No.

You mentioned the fact that the games after Halo CE lacked the same atmosphere, once, and then ranted pretty much the entire time about different aspects of the storyline (the boring characters, boring plot, etc).

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No, but I've said many times that I am not into shooting games anymore. Rarely do I like shooting games and usually it's because of the presence of another element. At its core, Halo's gameplay is still not that amazing. I've never liked vehicle combat in any game because it always gets abused. The guns have almost no skill ceiling. Halo is a low-skill ceiling game in comparison to FPS' like Quake and Counterstrike. Most of the guns have shitty feedback, too (this goes for the whole series, not just the latter Halo's. The assault rifle in Halo CE, the plasma rifle in every game, the SMGs in 2 etc).

I wonder what the Twisted Metal Black online was like.

Must have been sweet.

Twisted Metal is sweet.

Ihsahn wrote:

Quote :

No, but I've said many times that I am not into shooting games anymore. Rarely do I like shooting games and usually it's because of the presence of another element. At its core, Halo's gameplay is still not that amazing. I've never liked vehicle combat in any game because it always gets abused. The guns have almost no skill ceiling. Halo is a low-skill ceiling game in comparison to FPS' like Quake and Counterstrike. Most of the guns have shitty feedback, too (this goes for the whole series, not just the latter Halo's. The assault rifle in Halo CE, the plasma rifle in every game, the SMGs in 2 etc).

Dude come on. Don't even. You spent a good majority of the time ranting about how shallow the story was , but in this thread you implied it's not necessary.

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

Quote :

No, but I've said many times that I am not into shooting games anymore. Rarely do I like shooting games and usually it's because of the presence of another element. At its core, Halo's gameplay is still not that amazing. I've never liked vehicle combat in any game because it always gets abused. The guns have almost no skill ceiling. Halo is a low-skill ceiling game in comparison to FPS' like Quake and Counterstrike. Most of the guns have shitty feedback, too (this goes for the whole series, not just the latter Halo's. The assault rifle in Halo CE, the plasma rifle in every game, the SMGs in 2 etc).

Dude come on. Don't even. You spent a good majority of the time ranting about how shallow the story was , but in this thread you implied it's not necessary.

I was going to say that in another thread. About Mario or something.

Didn't want to start a flame-war. Isahn is kind of e-volatile.

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

Quote :

No, but I've said many times that I am not into shooting games anymore. Rarely do I like shooting games and usually it's because of the presence of another element. At its core, Halo's gameplay is still not that amazing. I've never liked vehicle combat in any game because it always gets abused. The guns have almost no skill ceiling. Halo is a low-skill ceiling game in comparison to FPS' like Quake and Counterstrike. Most of the guns have shitty feedback, too (this goes for the whole series, not just the latter Halo's. The assault rifle in Halo CE, the plasma rifle in every game, the SMGs in 2 etc).

Dude come on. Don't even. You spent a good majority of the time ranting about how shallow the story was , but in this thread you implied it's not necessary.

It isn't necessary. Gameplay always comes first. Halo's gameplay sucks and I mentioned that once you called me out for not explaining. It is a storydriven game, is it not? Therefore it should be judged on those merits.

Ihsahn wrote:

Sovereign Alan wrote:

Ihsahn wrote:

Quote :

No, but I've said many times that I am not into shooting games anymore. Rarely do I like shooting games and usually it's because of the presence of another element. At its core, Halo's gameplay is still not that amazing. I've never liked vehicle combat in any game because it always gets abused. The guns have almost no skill ceiling. Halo is a low-skill ceiling game in comparison to FPS' like Quake and Counterstrike. Most of the guns have shitty feedback, too (this goes for the whole series, not just the latter Halo's. The assault rifle in Halo CE, the plasma rifle in every game, the SMGs in 2 etc).

Dude come on. Don't even. You spent a good majority of the time ranting about how shallow the story was , but in this thread you implied it's not necessary.

It isn't necessary. Gameplay always comes first. Halo's gameplay sucks and I mentioned that once you called me out for not explaining. It is a storydriven game, is it not? Therefore it should be judged on those merits.

I think you might be confused.

Confused about what? I think it's you two confused. You both are always trying to get at me when you don't understand what I write (especially Pickles - get off my D, bro). Rather than asking you jump to conclusions.

Halo's gameplay isn't that great. It's not for me, but it's tolerable enough to actually get through the game. That goes hand in hand with what I said about story-driven games. That the gameplay needs to be tolerable enough to actually make it through the game, which is exactly what Halo's gameplay is. I don't like it, but it's not buggy and functions well.

I bitched about Halo's story because its gameplay isn't a complete mess. You can certainly take marks off a game for its story, but there is a fine line between games like Mario, Pacman and all those arcade-y games that are meant to be gameplay first and stuff like Mass Effect, Halo and so on. The former are driven ENTIRELY by their gameplay. Sure, you could argue they should have SOME story, but they don't and to judge it on merits it doesn't have is pretty silly. Again, goes hand in hand. This seriously feels like deja vu.

Pickles, on the other hand, has a pretty skewed perspective on games if he's okay with spending $60 for a movie. Gaming is about interaction. If the gameplay is bad, why on earth would you make it through the game just to see the story? That just sounds painful, especially if it's an RPG.

No one's trying to get at you bro.

And I'm not trying to "dick ride" you.

It's just that sometimes your posts SEEM inconsistent with what you say.

You need to stop being so sensitive.

If responding in the same tone you attack me with is being sensitive (lol) then I guess you're right.

Aww he's getting defensive.

Ihsahn, I don't give a rats ass. I just found it ironic that you bashed Halo alot about it having a bad story, but then in this thread you admit gameplay is king and that a game's story is unnecessary.

When I asked you to explain why you thought Halo was a shite game, you didn't need to state anything about the story if that wasn't the main focus of your righteous Halo hate. Hell I would have gotten the message if you said "i don't like the story." But you didn't. You fleshed out your arguement and gave me a very detailed arguement on why you think the game's story is shallow and lacking. You say one or two things about the gameplay, saying fair statements like "the weapon feedback sucks," but overall it definitely came off as a rant toward the story of Halo.

Quote :

bitched about Halo's story because its gameplay isn't a complete mess. You can certainly take marks off a game for its story, but there is a fine line between games like Mario, Pacman and all those arcade-y games that are meant to be gameplay first and stuff like Mass Effect, Halo and so on. The former are driven ENTIRELY by their gameplay. Sure, you could argue they should have SOME story, but they don't and to judge it on merits it doesn't have is pretty silly. Again, goes hand in hand.

The thing is, the story is there in Halo and it's far from awful. DEFINITELY not horrible enough to completely ignore the fact that the gameplay is actually quite fun. Killzone 3's story/plot is even worse. Take everything wrong with the Halo's story and multiply it by 10 and you get KZ3's storyline.. The game is still a blast to play.


Remember Ihsahn, I still love you.

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Ihsahn, I don't give a rats ass. I just found it ironic that you bashed Halo alot about it having a bad story, but then in this thread you admit gameplay is king and that a game's story is unnecessary.

Oh please you care more than I do. Your colossal butthurt seeps through all the baseless conclusions you come to when you "debate" (is lopsided even considered a debate?) with me. Playing it off as I DUN CARE ROFL XD I AM TROL UMAD doesn't work with me, but go on and believe what makes you feel better.

Gameplay is most important. It always will be. Games like Mario and all of them that have no focus on story should not be judged on merits it does not have. Still with me? I hope I'm not losing you. The "story" in these games serve almost no purpose other than to give the game a direction. A goal. Mario? Save the princess and stop Bowser. That gives you a direction and a goal. But that's it. Bitching at story in a game that has none is like going into a romantic comedy and bitching at it because it didn't have epic gun fights.

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When I asked you to explain why you thought Halo was a shite game, you didn't need to state anything about the story if that wasn't the main focus of your righteous Halo hate. Hell I would have gotten the message if you said "i don't like the story." But you didn't. You fleshed out your arguement and gave me a very detailed arguement on why you think the game's story is shallow and lacking. You say one or two things about the gameplay, saying fair statements like "the weapon feedback sucks," but overall it definitely came off as a rant toward the story of Halo.

Because it is a rant toward the story. It IS the biggest reason why I dislike Halo. This isn't difficult to grasp, dewd. I made it very clear that the gameplay, which is most important (never abandoned this stance), is tolerable enough to make it through the game. The next logical step in judging a game, for me, is its story. Since Halo's gameplay is tolerable, my hate for the game comes from its derivative and generic storyline. The reason I liked the first Halo was because of its ominous, mysterious atmosphere. There were a lot of questions you had to ask yourself when you played. I'm not sure if I'd like it now because I played that shit when I was like 13, but I did like it at the time.

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The thing is, the story is there in Halo and it's far from awful. DEFINITELY not horrible enough to completely ignore the fact that the gameplay is actually quite fun.

Didn't say the story wasn't there, but it sure isn't great. This awesome story people rave on about in the books does not leak into the games. But dear Alan, I don't think the gameplay is quite fun! The Halo fanatic inside you is taking over. Congratulations, you have an opinion! I'm happy you're able to form your own opinion. No, really. Just know that

Wait for it. Here comes the shocker:

...

I don't agree!

You might wanna get a mop and clean up the brains that are now located on the wall behind you.

If anyone is getting defensive it's you for incessantly trying to tell me my opinion is wrong. Oh wait, I forgot. You "don't give a rats ass." :lol!:

I never called you a troll. You are far from a troll. You actually contribute intellectually to a discussion.

I don't know how credible you think my words are. But I can reassure you, I don't GIVE A RATS ASS in the sense that I'm trying to "expose" you. I was merely curious on what you had to say when I discovered your (what it appeared to me atleast) inconsistancy in what you believe a game should have.

Your responses aren't half bad, and you did make a good point about how some games depend more so on gameplay than others. I just find it funny that anytime I question you you or evenly remotely respond to what you have to say you do this trademark "over analysis" of yours where you THINK you understand me and my intentions. I never said your opinion was wrong nor did I imply it. Simply questioning your opinioning doesn't mean I'm trying to attack it. Also, you gotta stay consistant or atleast try to sound like it.

Yes, I'm being uberly defensive. That's why you I'm the one responding to you in my own free will. Hey I guess a good offensive is a good defense right?

Sure, and you'll notice that when you asked and don't jump to conclusions, I responded politely. When I said "expose" I was mostly referring to Pickles because that's all he ever seems to do in regards to my posts and then follows it up with childish insults. Your candor is generally respectable.

I don't mind you questioning me. I make mistakes and I'm certainly willing to admit to them, but jumping down my throat isn't the way to go about that and that's how your tone came across.

It's just a miscommunication then, because I did not intend to shove my opinion down your throat.