Eminem vs Nas vs Snoop Dogg

LMFAO @ The backing music being not that great.

Dr. Dre is one of the BEST in the beat-making 'art.'

You can say Em isn't the best, but God damn you have no ears if you call those beats shit.

EDIT: WTF? You don't need evidence to prove that something is amazing...

No need to inform me about In Flames. They were my first metal band, but I grew out of them once I realized that there are so many better bands. Oh and other than Pinball Map, Ordinary Story and Insipid 2000, Clayman & Colony suck. Colony is so overproduced it hurts.

I can mention in regards to your taste because a breakdown done right is a positive thing and I don't see why you think it's a bad thing. You don't spend time at that joke of a website Metal Archives, do you?

You're right Pray For Plagues is bad, but fast forward 4 years to their new CD and it's surprisingly decent. Trust me I hate Oli and the whole shitty fanbase of that band. But I was told that their newest album was actually kinda good and I was completely taken back by how much they've improved. Not saying you're going to like them now, but bitching about that album is a pretty outdated mindset.

As for the rap shenanigans, I completely disagree with Eminem being the best modern poet or even the best rapper. I mean he's good, but he's severely overrated.

I can back up rappers being amazingly talented. Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3hrtp1T84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR_cGmN0LU4

I understand the sentiment that rap sucks nowadays. Save for a few modern artists (like Trae), it's mostly about being witty and putting together meaningless words, but back in the day a lot of rap actually had meaning. "Gangsta" tones and all that shit is part of the style just like death metal bands growling and yelling into the mic or that southern twang that country musicians have.

PS: Elitism is never fine.

Rap isn't about being witty nowadays. I like witty rappers, but the rappers of the mainstream today just aren't very clever (with some exceptions like B.o.B.)

TRF wrote:

Rap isn't about being witty nowadays. I like witty rappers, but the rappers of the mainstream today just aren't very clever (with some exceptions like B.o.B.)

In my opinion B.o.B and Lupe are keeping the mainstream interesting. Lupe isn't super mainstream but mainstream enough for Atlantic records to care about fucking with his albums :x

I just listened to In Flames. God that shit sounds awful. And great songwriting? I just looked up lyrics for a bunch of their songs and it's all about pain and anguish.

TRF wrote:

Rap isn't about being witty nowadays. I like witty rappers, but the rappers of the mainstream today just aren't very clever (with some exceptions like B.o.B.)

It is about being witty. Granted hip hop has kinda always been this way, but back then artists were actually good (Redman & Method Man were amazingly clever).

As for In Flames: it depends entirely on what album you're talking about. Their past few albums have been nothing but generic pseudo-melo-death with pathetic angst lyrics.

TheStaticFox wrote:

TRF wrote:

Rap isn't about being witty nowadays. I like witty rappers, but the rappers of the mainstream today just aren't very clever (with some exceptions like B.o.B.)

In my opinion B.o.B and Lupe are keeping the mainstream interesting. Lupe isn't super mainstream but mainstream enough for Atlantic records to care about fucking with his albums :x

I have to agree with that. I HATE MAINSTREAM RAP! But B.o.B and Lupe are good.

Ihsahn wrote:

TRF wrote:

Rap isn't about being witty nowadays. I like witty rappers, but the rappers of the mainstream today just aren't very clever (with some exceptions like B.o.B.)

It is about being witty. Granted hip hop has kinda always been this way, but back then artists were actually good (Redman & Method Man were amazingly clever).

As for In Flames: it depends entirely on what album you're talking about. Their past few albums have been nothing but generic pseudo-melo-death with pathetic angst lyrics.

I don't see mainstream rappers today as being witty. Their lyrics aren't clever at all. It's all the same. Look at Eminem. His old stuff is great. Were the lyrics deep and meaningful? Far from it, but the lyrics were incredibly witty, clever, and quite humorous. Rappers of the modern mainstream lack that lyrical talent.

I listened to "Behind Space." Didn't like it.

Well yeah I didn't say they pulled off being witty. I just said that's what they're all about nowadays.

Ihsahn wrote:

Well yeah I didn't say they pulled off being witty. I just said that's what they're all about nowadays.

I hate when people are witty for the sake of being witty and it doesn't work out. I like it if your witty and it has a good meaning behind it. But i would rather have them try to be witty than listen to gangter rap or most or the clubbing rap in the mainstream.

I can dig witty rapping if it's actually witty. Not all rap, much like any music, has to have some subliminal meaning or purpose behind it. If it sounds good then why not?

Ihsahn wrote:

No need to inform me about In Flames. They were my first metal band, but I grew out of them once I realized that there are so many better bands. Oh and other than Pinball Map, Ordinary Story and Insipid 2000, Clayman & Colony suck. Colony is so overproduced it hurts.

I can mention in regards to your taste because a breakdown done right is a positive thing and I don't see why you think it's a bad thing. You don't spend time at that joke of a website Metal Archives, do you?

You're right Pray For Plagues is bad, but fast forward 4 years to their new CD and it's surprisingly decent. Trust me I hate Oli and the whole shitty fanbase of that band. But I was told that their newest album was actually kinda good and I was completely taken back by how much they've improved. Not saying you're going to like them now, but bitching about that album is a pretty outdated mindset.

As for the rap shenanigans, I completely disagree with Eminem being the best modern poet or even the best rapper. I mean he's good, but he's severely overrated.

I can back up rappers being amazingly talented. Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3hrtp1T84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR_cGmN0LU4

I understand the sentiment that rap sucks nowadays. Save for a few modern artists (like Trae), it's mostly about being witty and putting together meaningless words, but back in the day a lot of rap actually had meaning. "Gangsta" tones and all that shit is part of the style just like death metal bands growling and yelling into the mic or that southern twang that country musicians have.

PS: Elitism is never fine.

No, it's not that there are "so many better" bands, it's that your taste has changed (for the worse I'd say). And hahaha nice opinion, mine would differ. EVERY song on Jester Race, Whoracle, Colony and Clayman is imo, excellent. I couldn't name a bad In Flames song if I tried, other than on their newer albums. In fact how can you mention pinball map? It's my least favourite on the album, still great but not as good as the rest. The riff is dull in comparison. Also what happened to Embody, Resin, Satellites & Astronauts, Square nothing, etc? All great tunes!

Metal archives I stumbled across once when looking at Insomnium album reviews but I've not used it since. Also, the breakdown thing. I am not criticising breakdowns as such. I was merely loling at the fact that I was accused of listening to music primarily with breakdowns..... I don't see how that is the case nor understand why it was even brought up.

I heard their new album. One of my closest friends was blasting that when I was at his house once. Not only could I barely distinguish which track was which (most sounded the nearly fookin same) but it was dull... lack of interesting lead guitar, overdone + typical repetitive riffs and irritating vocals.
They seem to be one of those bands out to shock (like Anal Cunt) rather than to use their talent (if any) in a constructive, musical way.

right... link 1
LOL did you realise that the backing music (pretty lame anyway) was like a 3 second thing repeated OVER and OVER all the way through the song, never changing, never progressing.
The lyrics were alright, I don't particularly think they were good but they're better than most rap lyrics. The actual vocals..what makes this dude distinctive? He sounds just like any other rapper and it's worse that there's no melody to his vocal line and he doesn't even really change pitch or tone. lol
My opinion remains unchanged.

link 2
"i hate those muthafuckin posaz" "we don' make dose whack trax"
yeah...great lyrics.
The rapper sounds bored from start to finish, especially with that descending sound on the end of every word.
The backing suffers from the same utter fail as the previous "song". Fooking repetitive with only one change in the entire song.
My opinion remains unchanged.

link 3
Alright, much better backing but still a lot repetitive.
1:50 was horrible I can barely even hear the backing vocals at all. It's just pointless.
And yeah... I can't find lyrics anywhere so I'll let him off for that.

But either way, how do any of these above links show ANY talent or musical creativity in any way? Really?

lol

Quote :

just like death metal bands growling and yelling into the mic

that's the thing. I don't even like death metal bands "growling and yelling" into a mic. Because so many are utter shit. Like Prostitute disfigurement. Horrible lack of talent, stupid, repetitive, childish riffs, etc
I like a select few that I recognise are musically competant, have beautiful melodies and harmonies.
And tbh it's easier to rap than death growl anyway. As with death growling you have to learn to utilize your diaphragm for the growls rather than your throat. It's hard, I've tried so many times and never managed. lol

I tend not to associate myself with extreme death metal bands or rap bands. They are the different ends of the spectrum of music where it requires very little talent (except death growling and some lyric writing) and lacks much musicality.

If you like it, fair enough... I really don't understand how you can and never will but nevermind, I'll just listen to my superior music, elitist that I am (despite even bashing death metal as a genre) and I'll listen to the occasional rap song when there is someone featured in it who actually is musically competent.

^^

LOL @ Your backing music argument. That's not necessarily what rap is even about.

Also, you can't judge an entire song on one or two lines.

Some (Good rappers) send a message through their music. Listen to Flobots. They send messages of how corrupt our political system is and some other things. Hell, here's a link.

Quote :

No, it's not that there are "so many better" bands, it's that your taste has changed (for the worse I'd say). And hahaha nice opinion, mine would differ. EVERY song on Jester Race, Whoracle, Colony and Clayman is imo, excellent. I couldn't name a bad In Flames song if I tried, other than on their newer albums. In fact how can you mention pinball map? It's my least favourite on the album, still great but not as good as the rest. The riff is dull in comparison. Also what happened to Embody, Resin, Satellites & Astronauts, Square nothing, etc? All great tunes!

Er - yeah there are way better bands. At the Gates is better than In Flames x1000 and had more influence on the metal scene. I mean I have to give them respect for getting me into metal, but if you think going from "My Sweet Shadow" off Soundtrack To Your Escape to loving bands like Atheist, Death and At the Gates is a devolution in taste then I begin to question yours. Well, more so than I already do.

Quote :

Metal archives I stumbled across once when looking at Insomnium album reviews but I've not used it since. Also, the breakdown thing. I am not criticising breakdowns as such. I was merely loling at the fact that I was accused of listening to music primarily with breakdowns..... I don't see how that is the case nor understand why it was even brought up.

Fair enough, then.

Quote :

I heard their new album. One of my closest friends was blasting that when I was at his house once. Not only could I barely distinguish which track was which (most sounded the nearly fookin same) but it was dull... lack of interesting lead guitar, overdone + typical repetitive riffs and irritating vocals.
They seem to be one of those bands out to shock (like Anal Cunt) rather than to use their talent (if any) in a constructive, musical way.

That's probably the biggest blanket argument I've ever seen and a huge cover up for "I've never heard it before." Like I said, you're still not going to like it and I completely understand, but bitching about their old music is outdated. They have improved tenfold if only because the new album has superb production and the music isn't soulless deathcore.

As for the whole rap thing... I just can't break through a thick skull. What makes old In Flames' vocals sound any different than the hundreds of metal bands? You mention Insomnium. What makes him sound any different than the thousands of guys growling into a mic? Your argument is contradictory.

Hell, the lyrics? You ACTUALLY think metal bands have good lyrics? There are a few here and there, but either it's immature QQ teenage emo shit or it's pseudo-intellectual babbling that doesn't make sense. Lord Hypnos from TJR is about dreams being a window into the subconscious. Because I haven't heard that before, right?

lol@no creativity. Yes because In Flames didn't just play simple death metal riffs with a contrasting melody over the top and infuse acoustic elements here and there. Derp?

Quote :

that's the thing. I don't even like death metal bands "growling and yelling" into a mic. Because so many are utter shit. Like Prostitute

I think you took what I said too literally here. That's all The Jester Race is. I will link you tracks from In Flames and if the forumgoers here can find any semblance of variation in his tone, please tell me.





Anders sounds the exact same in every song and is hardly distinguishable from every other metal band.

I have explained why I like rap, but you're too narrow minded to accept that not everything needs to have a guitar and drums to be good. Rap has rhythm. Rap also delivers messages in clever ways that aren't plastered with inane and misused vocabulary or manchild angst like metal. You'll never understand because you're too busy trying to nitpick and find ways to dismiss it. But the second someone tells you that a band you like isn't all that great you abandon all cognitive thinking. I don't want to call you a fanboy because I know you're better than that, but the symptoms are pretty similar.

Quote :

There are a few here and there, but either it's immature QQ teenage emo shit or it's pseudo-inellectual babbling that doesn't make sense.

You, sir, are a genius.

I think I love you, Ihsahn. I couldn't stop laughing at your post.

You really hit the nail on the head and basically summarized everything I've been thinking.